Discussion Regarding Shiaism

Question

bismeALLAHe rahmane rahim asalum aleikom all praise is due to ALLAH the lord of the mankind and jinn and what ever which exsist. so i raed what you said and sorry to make you upset but what i think of you is that you do not have enough knowledge. why i will explain you one by one, AND IAM NOT TRYING TO MAKE YOU UPSET AND BE RUDE TO YOU JUST TO PROVE THE RIGHT PATHS AS WE ADRESS CHRISTINE THE RIGHT PATH WHICH IS ISLAM.

1. prophet mohammad (p.b.uh) has said that there will be 73 groups in islam and only one among the 73 groups is the right paths and only that one group go to paradise nowPAY ATTENTION PLEASE YOU SAID THAT IAM ONLY A MUSLIM NOT SUNNI NOR SHIA SO first of all it is not possible because prophet mohammad (p.b.u.h) said there will be 73 groups and PROPHET MOHAMMAD (P.B.U.H) NEVER SAID THAT THERE WOULD BE MUSLIMS WHO ARE NOT BELONG TO ANY 73 GROUPS SO THEREFORE THIS IS YOUR FIRST MISTAKE .please be honest to yourself and think deeply about what i said .

2. you said that HOLY QURAN is the our guide . YES FOR 100 PERCENT HOLY QURAN IS THE SOURCE OF GUIDENCE. but holy quran is not the only source to know religion of islam there are true hadithes that we can also learn alots of things from them for examople we can learn the dua that prophet use to recite when he wanted to eat or when he wanted to sleep or when he wanted to go out from his home so here again you made a mistake AND I HOPE TAHT YOU ACCEPT YOUR MISTAKE AND BE HONEST TO YOUR SELF TO ACCEPT THE TRUTH.

3. you said that holy quran is the source of guidence yes my dear friend it is a very good source of guidence but you have to underestand the meaning of its verses correctly and DO NOT interprete from what you think as we read in the hadith of prophet mohamad(p.b.u.h) said that if a person interpret a verse of quran correct there is no REWARD for him and if he interpret a verse of holy quran THAT PERSON WILL GO TO HELL FIRE. therfore before you interpret any verse read the tafsser of holly quran I mean the true tafsser of shia not the one who do not how to interpret and i will prove it inshallah. so did you ever know that every single prophet that has come has had A VASI. VASI MEANS THE ONE WHO IS DOING WHAT PROPHET WAS DOING WHEN HE WAS ALIVE. the wasi of prophet mosa(a.s) was yusheabne non and wasi of prophet esa(a.s) ALSO HAD WASI. ALL THE PROPHET have had vasi so HOW IS IT POSSIBLE THAT ALLAH (s.w.t) has not chosen WASI for prophet mohammad a WASI does it sounds logical. lets even say this way prophet mohammad(p.b.u.h) use to care for every small things when HE(P.B.U.H)was in war or was sending a group for war he use to remind them every thing or he even would say in muslim ommah who do that job or who do this job. let me give you another example if there is a muslim who has a factury and he is about to die he will say before he die that who run and be boss of that factory but sunni people say that prophet did not choose any body for after himself to run the muslim ommah this is what aboobaker and ommar khatab said and this is a big sin because how is it possible that prophet (p.b.u.h) which cared about the smallest issues , did not care about this big issue that who runs the ummah after himself.may ALLAH(S.W.T) GUIDE ALL OF US FOR THE SAKE OF PROPHET AND HIS AHLE BAIT (A.S) AMIN

now you wrote me a verse from surah ahzab. yes it is true that i have been born as a shia muslim who beleive in 12 imams(a.s) and i will tell you one thing that i hope you never forget inshallah amin. if you go and talk with a christine and you TELL THAT CHRISTINE THAT ALLAH IS ONE NOT 3 , AND IF YOU TELL that christine that islam is the true religion that christine would tell you that because you are born as a muslim you say that so at that point if you have knowledge about islam and ALLAH(s.w.t) to prove that ALLAH IS ONE NOT 3 AND ISLAM IS THE TRUE RELIGION NOT CHRISTINITY you can win the debate and you can prove to him from the verse of holy bible that ALLAH IS ONE NOT 3 and prophet mohammad(p.b.u.h) is mentioned in holy quran BUT if you do not have the knowledge although you know that ALLAH is one and islam is the only true relighion but because you do not know how to prove it you leave the debate. so inshallah in the near feature i will give some verse from holy quran that is very simple to underestand and there are 300 verse so inshallah you will underestand them.but if you give me time i will coolect those verses and will email you.

4. you say that ABOOBAR WAS right and aboobakr hom self was claimin that i must be the khalife and IMAM ALI(a.s) HIMSELF WAS CLAIMING THAT ABOOBAKR STOLE MY RIGHT. So both of them could not be right and one of them must have lied. so how can we realize who was the right one and who was lieng? here according to the verse of TATHEER which is in the holy quran ALLAH say that these 5 people are masoom an clean from any sin these 5 people are prophet mohammad(a.s) , imam ali(a.s) , imam hussain (a.s) , imam hassan(a.s) and hazrat fatime(a.s) so according to this verse we know that imam ALI(A.S) IS CLEAN FROM ANY SIN AND HE NEVER HAVE DONE ANY SIN AND WHAT EVER HE SAYS IS RIGHT NOT LIE SO THEREFORE ABBOBAKR MUST HAVE LIED. MY DEAR BROTHER can you really find any evidence easier than this , just be honest with yourself and in the near feature if i was alive i will email you the veses which mentions imams(a.s) inshallah amin

at the end my point is not to make you upset because i bellieve that i as a shai muslim it is sin to make muslim upset so if you have any comment please email me.

Response

Before I address the issues, I will like to say that a Hadith must be interpreted in the light of Quran since the Word of God is unanimously accepted as supreme by all Muslims. It is also possible that a Hadith may have been misreported, or some text may have been lost in addition to the context of many Ahadith not available in their narration. On the other hand, Quran's preservation has been guaranteed by God himself, therefore, there is no chance that information we received in Quran may not be accurate.

Having said that, the concept of who enters Paradise and who enters Hell has been dealt in very detail by Quran. In fact, it is the main theme of the Book of God, and Quran's entire effort is around taking us out of Hell and getting us into the Paradise. Based on this basic principle, Quran makes recommendations to us on how we should live and behave and how should we deal with issues in this world.

With this understanding in mind, I will express my opinions on the issues that you have raised.

prophet mohammad (p.b.uh) has said that there will be 73 groups in islam and only one among the 73 groups is the right paths and only that one group go to paradise nowPAY ATTENTION PLEASE YOU SAID THAT IAM ONLY A MUSLIM NOT SUNNI NOR SHIA SO first of all it is not possible because prophet mohammad (p.b.u.h) said there will be 73 groups and PROPHET MOHAMMAD (P.B.U.H) NEVER SAID THAT THERE WOULD BE MUSLIMS WHO ARE NOT BELONG TO ANY 73 GROUPS SO THEREFORE THIS IS YOUR FIRST MISTAKE. please be honest to yourself and think deeply about what i said .

In the light of the understanding I have explained above, it is clear that our place in Heaven or Hell will be established on the Day of Judgment based on the principles laid down by Quran. For instance, some - not all - of the references regarding who will enter Paradise and who will not are quoted below:

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ وَالَّذِينَ هَادُواْ وَالنَّصَارَى وَالصَّابِئِينَ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحاً فَلَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلاَ خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلاَ هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ

Those who believe and those who turned Jew and the Christians and the Sabians - whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does righteous deeds shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. (Quran 2:62)

فَأَمَّا مَن طَغَى * وَآثَرَ الْحَيَاةَ الدُّنْيَا * فَإِنَّ الْجَحِيمَ هِيَ الْمَأْوَى * وَأَمَّا مَنْ خَافَ مَقَامَ رَبِّهِ وَنَهَى النَّفْسَ عَنِ الْهَوَى * فَإِنَّ الْجَنَّةَ هِيَ الْمَأْوَى

Then as for whosoever was insolent preferring the present life, surely, Hell will be their refuge. But, whosoever feared the standing before his Lord and prevented the self from desires, indeed, their refuge shall be Paradise. (Quran 79:37-41)

Quran has explained this topic so well that anyone who studies Quran seriously cannot miss it out. Therefore, this Hadith, as I interpret means that there will be only one group which will actually live by recommendations of the Quran and it is that group that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) has said will enter Paradise. Outside of this, I do not find a plausible explanation. The name by which that group calls itself is not important, because there was no such concept at the time of the Prophet (pbuh) anyway.

You might want to look at one of my previous posts regarding 72 sects in Islam in which I have explained from a different perspective how I have understood this hadith.

you said that HOLY QURAN is the our guide . YES FOR 100 PERCENT HOLY QURAN IS THE SOURCE OF GUIDENCE. but holy quran is not the only source to know religion of islam there are true hadithes that we can also learn alots of things from them for examople we can learn the dua that prophet use to recite when he wanted to eat or when he wanted to sleep or when he wanted to go out from his home so here again you made a mistake AND I HOPE TAHT YOU ACCEPT YOUR MISTAKE AND BE HONEST TO YOUR SELF TO ACCEPT THE TRUTH.

I beg to differ with you on the this point. This is because I truly and firmly believe that Holy Quran suffices for my salvation and is the only source of guidance, and there is nothing other than this Book that can guide me to success. Quran says about itself:

ذَلِكَ الْكِتَابُ لاَ رَيْبَ فِيهِ هُدًى لِّلْمُتَّقِينَ

This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without a doubt, for those who fear God. (Quran 2:2)

شَهْرُ رَمَضَانَ الَّذِيَ أُنزِلَ فِيهِ الْقُرْآنُ هُدًى لِّلنَّاسِ وَبَيِّنَاتٍ مِّنَ الْهُدَى وَالْفُرْقَانِ

The month of Ramadan is in which was revealed the Quran, a guidance for mankind, and clear proofs of the guidance, and the criterion of right and wrong. ... (Quran 2:185)

As is apparent, Quran is the only criterion of right and wrong. If we accept anything outside of Quran as guidance, we must be able to provide evidence for it from Quran. I do not suggest that we reject the Hadith completely, however, hadith cannot overrule, nor add to the set of beliefs that have been explained forth by the Quran.

Needless to say, if I find myself in error, I will not take time to revise my opinion and accept what is true.

so did you ever know that every single prophet that has come has had A VASI. VASI MEANS THE ONE WHO IS DOING WHAT PROPHET WAS DOING WHEN HE WAS ALIVE. the wasi of prophet mosa(a.s) was yusheabne non and wasi of prophet esa(a.s) ALSO HAD WASI. ALL THE PROPHET have had vasi so HOW IS IT POSSIBLE THAT ALLAH (s.w.t) has not chosen WASI for prophet mohammad a WASI does it sounds logical.

I would ask you to bring forth the evidence that every prophet MUST have a wasi. I believe this concept is not from the Quran, and if it is, I would like to know where it is.

Every prophet was usually followed or sometimes accompanied by another prophet. Note that for this, Quran has not used the term 'wasi', rather the term 'nabi'. Therefore, prophet Abraham (pbuh) was followed by prophets Isaac and Ishmael, later followed by Jacob, Joseph and so forth. They were all prophets of God and there is no mention of a concept of wasi in Quran. In the case of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh), Quran has declared that there shall be no prophet after him. That chapter is thus closed now. Any other concept of a successor to the Holy Prophet (pbuh) does not exist in Quran.

How is it possible that why God did not chose a successor to the Prophet (pbuh)? It is completely possible because God is Almighty and All-Wise - He can choose to do whatever He wants whenever He wants without the need of anyone. When He decides He does not need a successor (in form of another prophet) to the prophet Muhammad (pbuh), then He can very well manage everything for us that way.

lets even say this way prophet mohammad(p.b.u.h) use to care for every small things when HE(P.B.U.H)was in war or was sending a group for war he use to remind them every thing or he even would say in muslim ommah who do that job or who do this job. let me give you another example if there is a muslim who has a factury and he is about to die he will say before he die that who run and be boss of that factory but sunni people say that prophet did not choose any body for after himself to run the muslim ommah this is what aboobaker and ommar khatab said and this is a big sin because how is it possible that prophet (p.b.u.h) which cared about the smallest issues , did not care about this big issue that who runs the ummah after himself.

My brother, it is not my domain to second guess why the prophet did not point out a caliph after him. But most importantly, I am convinced that the Prophet (pbuh)'s duty was to convey the message of God and establish it in practice and he did so.

here according to the verse of TATHEER which is in the holy quran ALLAH say that these 5 people are masoom an clean from any sin these 5 people are prophet mohammad(a.s) , imam ali(a.s) , imam hussain (a.s) , imam hassan(a.s) and hazrat fatime(a.s) so according to this verse we know that imam ALI(A.S) IS CLEAN FROM ANY SIN AND HE NEVER HAVE DONE ANY SIN AND WHAT EVER HE SAYS IS RIGHT NOT LIE SO THEREFORE ABBOBAKR MUST HAVE LIED. MY DEAR BROTHER can you really find any evidence easier than this , just be honest with yourself and in the near feature if i was alive i will email you the veses which mentions imams(a.s) inshallah amin

I think the verse that you are mentioning to is the 33rd verse of Surah Al-Ahzab. I quote the verse in its context here:

يَا نِسَاء النَّبِيِّ لَسْتُنَّ كَأَحَدٍ مِّنَ النِّسَاء إِنِ اتَّقَيْتُنَّ فَلَا تَخْضَعْنَ بِالْقَوْلِ فَيَطْمَعَ الَّذِي فِي قَلْبِهِ مَرَضٌ وَقُلْنَ قَوْلًا مَّعْرُوفًا

O wives of the Prophet! you are not like any other of the women; If you will be on your guard, then be not soft in (your) speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease yearn; and speak a good word." (Quran 33:32)

وَقَرْنَ فِي بُيُوتِكُنَّ وَلَا تَبَرَّجْنَ تَبَرُّجَ الْجَاهِلِيَّةِ الْأُولَى وَأَقِمْنَ الصَّلَاةَ وَآتِينَ الزَّكَاةَ وَأَطِعْنَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرًا

And stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore; and keep up prayer, and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O Ahl alBayt! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying. (Quran 33:33)

The verse that talks about purification of the 'Ahl-alBayt' starts with "and stay in your houses and do not display your finery...". Obviously, such a command cannot be given to Ali (ra)! In addition, the context is very clear that the entire discussion here is about the wives of the prophet for the previous verse starts with this statement. Lastly, the phrase 'Ahl alBayt' itself just means 'O people of the House' as translated by M. H. Shakir, who is considered a Shi'ite.

As is apparent, this verse does not talk about prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and the five Imams, there is no reference whatsoever to those personalities. If there is a clear verse in the Quran, I would really be interested in finding out. I firmly believe that Quran is my only way to reach the Paradise and if Quran requires me to accept an Imam after prophet Muhammad (pbuh), I shall find no difficulty in doing so.

at the end my point is not to make you upset because i bellieve that i as a shai muslim it is sin to make muslim upset

My dear brother, I commend you for your attitude and I want to assure you that there is no religious discussion whatsoever that can offend me or make me upset. I hope we can continue to learn from each other.